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Regulator
Dec 13, 2010
10:27 AM | Hey fellas, this past weekend was fun but one thing that has to be corrected is the balance of A & B teams. I think the tourney organizers should enforce a rule that if you play in an "A" league during "regular season" then you should play "A" during "Tourney." Don`t think it`s fair that the B bracket gets flooded with a mix of the two and not really giving guys a chance to compete against their own level. |
hey
Dec 13, 2010
11:00 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
hey "fella" most leagues don`t have A and B everyone plays everyone all year long. Instead of trying to decide who is A and who is B from leagues you know nothing about why don`t the teams from your league B,C, D whatever play the best competition in your leagues like the rest of us do for the regular season so you won`t get your azz handed to you at states? |
hhmm
Dec 13, 2010
11:30 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
didnt like your draw huh? dont worry the top 8 B teams will be in A next season, and your team can have a better chance to win a game. from looking at the scores of the games, there didnt seem to be too many blow outs. most games looked competitive. i think there were over 20 games where 1 score ties or changes the winner of the game. Seems balanced to me. |
@ hey
Dec 13, 2010
11:32 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
look partna our talent is not in question and unfortunately we had to play against some unorganized sandlot teams who just wanted to come out there and hurt folks and no we didn`t win it all. But having to fight through 6 teams to get there when A is 3 at most with sometimes double elimination(second chance).....there just needs to be some balance. If VFFA is supposed to be setting standards then set the standards (for their Partner leagues). That`s like Auburn or Orgegon going down and taking a Div 2 title and telling Appalachian St. maybe if you play some tougher teams you`ll beat us. Go get a life.....seriously |
@hmmm
Dec 13, 2010
11:36 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
you`re right, it`s makes it little better moving the good teams up but next year it`ll be the same thing with 40+ teams in B. We`ll play whoever win or lose but it`s gonna get old. |
@@ hey
Dec 13, 2010
11:41 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Umm...there`s no double elimination in A. No second chance. You lose, you go home. And it took 4 games to win A this year, and 5 to win B. It`s a ***** of a tourney no matter what bracket you choose. |
LOL
Dec 13, 2010
11:42 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
"Regulator" think everyone who might beat his team is to good for B should of played in A. Its all good maybe next year they do a C Tournny and your team can play in that one!
|
no more divisions
Dec 13, 2010
11:53 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
The system is fine... anyone who plays softball knows the more divisions you have the more complaining there will be. Do you want a tournament with 5 teams in A. 10 teams in B and 50 teams in C. Nothing will change- you will still be complaining that there are B teams sandbagging down to C and so forth. There will always be teams that just can`t compete for a championship... if that is you, then,that is something you will have to just deal with or pick up better players. |
@LOL
Dec 13, 2010
11:57 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Actually considering moving up, if wimps want to be bullies in B, might as well take my chances in A. I take my whoopings and keep it moving but my point was there still needs to be balance. |
Question
Dec 13, 2010
12:01 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
For real, who do you think was sandbagging in the B tourney? You can`t say The Penetrators, they`ve never even won their league. Don`t know anything about the Katz except they`re brand new this year? Only team you can even argue about might be Pirates and they barely got past The Truth and then barely beat Stone Cold.
If the B tourney is too tough for you, consider playing coed. |
@ Question
Dec 13, 2010
12:09 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
I`ll only play co-ed if I can take the snap under center from your girl. |
Curtis Pirates
Dec 13, 2010
12:24 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
To question: How can you argue about the Pirates, just because the name been around for a minute, doesn`t mean the same players have. We had 11 guys this weekend and out of the 11 only five of us have been playing for over 6 years at least with me having the most at 14, yea I know that leave me to be an old grey head. So can you really argue that and say we didn`t belong in "B". Last year we didn`t even make it to sunday and from last year squad we only had five that played last year in states. |
@Curtis
Dec 13, 2010
12:45 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
My only point was meant to be a respectful nod towards your talent level. Regardless of how long your players as a group have been together, your team as a whole was probably the most experienced and has had the most success in the B level of this years field.
Not crying a bit either just so that`s clear. I think you were in the right division. I play for The Truth, #72. |
Reality
Dec 13, 2010
12:51 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
The reality is, no matter what you do somebody is going to complain. In the A league people complain about having to play the big dawgs (gunz, firm, Dmob). In B they complain about A teams playing B. Let`s B honest, wtf is a A team or a B team AND nobody is forcing you to play in either division, you can sign up for which ever division you want to. The only rules set is that if you finish top 8 in B you must move up next year. In Fairfax, we have about 20 different divisions, who`s to say what equates to A and what equates to B in states.
Maybe they should just rename it to the Competitive Division and Open Division. Y`all taking this A and B stuff to far. Then what would your excuses be?
Congrats to Gunz and Penatrators. |
CURTIS PIRATES
Dec 13, 2010
1:19 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
#72 THE TRUTH. Ok, now I understand you, if you would have put it that way in the beginning it would have been a lot clear. I hope your team come down this year to the July BASH, if not hope to see you guys at the Bark Bowl. |
Truth #72
Dec 13, 2010
1:28 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Cool. Definitely interested in the summer tourney as well as your Feb. pre-season tourney. Email me details: thetruthff@gmail.com |
Bottles- So Focuzed
Dec 13, 2010
1:34 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
I had this same conversation with some people on Saturday. I don`t understand why so many teams want to play in B anyway. This year their were 20 teams in A and 44 in B. If you look at the history of the tournament it wasn`t alway like this. Its only the last 5 or 6 years that the B numbers have exploded while A has steadily gone down.
I guess as an old school guy I really don`t see the appeal of playing in the B tournament. In the A tournament you are playing for the Virginia State Championship and a chance to represent your state at the National tournament. In the B tournament you can get a trophy with a big B on it which you will always know meant that you were playing for number 21 not number 1,
I think there is a place for a B tournament for teams new to the game and guys playing for fun. But if you are playing to compete then play in the A.
If you want a suggestion for how to solve the problem here is a simple one. Every league has a certain number of bids and those bids are already seeded. So my solution is that unless you are playing in a league that is designated as an A or B league then the top half of your leagues bids play in the A and the other bids go to B. So if your league has 2 bids you get 1 A and 1 B, if your league has 4 bids then its 2 and 2. Pretty simple solution that would make for even numbers and some really good tournaments at both levels. If you did that then you could stop forcing the top 8 B-teams to move up every year and just say that the 2 B teams that make the final have to move up.
If you handle it this way then you have league champions playing all the other league champions in the A and teams that didn`t win their league playing in the B. Which from a common sense perspective seems to work. |
Finally
Dec 13, 2010
1:43 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Somebody got on here and used real logic to make some sense. I`m with you on that Bottles, there were a couple discussions last weekend on the topic in the HQ room. |
SO WHAT....
Dec 13, 2010
2:07 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
A/B i think it dont matter because it comes down to ur team as a whole. What i mean by that is u know u want to `WIN` So no weak links on ur team during the course of ur seasson so u want have to go/come to states and fell that its not fair....PS they have free agent list posted in most of the league dnt they?? Better start looking on off season"hint" |
@So What
Dec 13, 2010
2:20 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
you`re missing the point. The point of this topic is not how to build an allstar team but how to create even divisions.
However, that would be another good board topic (allstar teams) |
Bottles- So Focuzed
Dec 13, 2010
2:33 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
@so what "Mr. Madison, what you`ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
|
CURTIS PIRATES
Dec 13, 2010
3:00 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
TRUTH #72. I will keep you posted. The Feb tournament will be Richmond this year, if I can get the fields. I am checking on it now. |
DO YA THINK
Dec 13, 2010
3:14 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
For open leagues, splitting teams between A and B tounaments WOULD make the two tournaments equal in size.
Of course, the assumption is all state leagues are realativly equal in strength. e.g. league 1`s top 2 are A caliber and league 2`s are as well. Then, for both leagues, the next two down are both B level teams. Not sure this is true throughout?? |
Bottles- So Focuzed
Dec 13, 2010
3:33 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
I don`t claim that my idea is a perfect solution but I think it would be a big improvement over the current scenario.
If the concern is that there are 3`s and 4`s from better leagues that might want to play A then you can make it that teams can play up but not down if they choose to.
I think that bids are typically allocated based on league strength and participation and as I mentioned earlier the bids are already seeded. So the infrastructure to support this is already in place.
I don`t assume that all leagues are equal but there are very good teams in very mediocre leagues that could compete at the A level if they challenged themselves to do so. It would also create new challenges for the current A teams because they would be forced to play teams they don`t see that often. For the B teams it would let the B tournament be what it is supposed to be and eliminate the complaints of A teams sandbagging to play B that seem to be pretty prevolent in the B league discussions. |
I think
Dec 13, 2010
3:36 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
You should make the A tourney a 32 team tourney. This way there are no byes...everyone plays 5 games to win it all. To do this you allow people to sign up as they want (a or b) but if you end up with 20 like you did this year, you pull up the 12 highest ranking teams from the year before or something along those lines. |
Bottles- So Focuzed
Dec 13, 2010
3:44 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
By the way, I sincerely doubt its going to happen. The VFFA know that if they did something like this then some teams that would be forced to play A are going to skip the tournament for fear of traveling and spending money to get their heads kicked in. And fewer teams = less tournament fee money, fewer T-shirts and Beer cups sold.
As a result things will probably stay as they are with 10-15 teams playing A by choice plus however many of the prior years B final 8 that show up to play. While the B league will continue to grow to 50+ teams. |
manman
Dec 13, 2010
4:11 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
the ration is about the same..2 b teams for every a team. last year it was about 60B teams and 30A. this year about 20A teams and about 44B teams. its alla bout how many teams join. |
prediction
Dec 13, 2010
4:18 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
this is gonna be an example for this discussion every year.
2011 B state champs.........??? u guessed it, M & G |
Al Bundy - The Truth #72
Dec 13, 2010
5:21 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
What I think will be interesting is the number of teams that will enter the tourney in 2011. If you look at the last time it was in Fairfax in 2008 we had the biggest overall field ever.
And just to throw in my .02 cents, we played in an Open format in both the Spring and Fall this year and qualified for A in both cases. However I firmly believe that at the State level we are currently a B team and that`s why we chose to play there. I think, considering how we fared that I made the right decision. |
JG Dynasty 3
Dec 13, 2010
5:30 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Most of our guys would`ve chosen A...we just didn`t have the roster to do it this year....we were missing four starters...and had no depth.....no choice bit A next year tho...cant wait |
^
Dec 13, 2010
6:40 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
but you didnt even make it to the ship round in B and you think 4 players puts you in A |
^
Dec 13, 2010
8:25 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
wow, dont you sound smart. Everybody knows that all it takes is one player to make a difference. |
JG Dynasty 3
Dec 13, 2010
8:42 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Yup being that they were four starters and we had 6 playing both ways for four games...takes a toll on the body....especially in tough weather |
@JG
Dec 13, 2010
9:48 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
you aint lying we had the same situation and we we`re in the top 8 so we`re heading to A next year. |
^
Dec 13, 2010
9:59 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
so we are playing a game of what ifs...I guess you lost because you didnt have your "complete" squad and if you did you would have CHOSEN to play in A, but you didnt so you DROPPED to B, and couldnt compete in B either because you had 4 KEY starters out forcing 6 players to play both ways...hmm...okay...oh wait and the weather played a factor in your performance too... |
@^
Dec 13, 2010
11:30 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
you obviously have super confidence in the validity of your point as if everything you know is certain. you lose #youratroll |
JG Dynasty 3
Dec 14, 2010
01:41 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Nah homie...we lost cuz we picked the wrong time to make mistakes and play like garbage...simple as that...and as far as missing players yeah and weather yeah it played a part...it takes a lot more energy to repeatedly pull ure feet out the mud as opposed to running on dry ground...add that to the fact ure not getting a break and u start to make critical errors that matter like being a step out of position or missing a flag u could have normally got too had u had a bit more burst...the good teams know that little things like timing matter a lot in this game...precision and consistancy are key...and fatigue effects that absolutely...I can`t say its the reason we lost but it would have def helped to have a rotation...all that said...we played hard and had fun...looking forward to the next go round |
to JG 3
Dec 14, 2010
06:25 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
man I feel ya dawg. I wasn`t even playing but was watching teams play. I saw people diving for flags getting wet. I saw multiple teams with players grabbing legs and stuff from pulled or tight muscles. it was a crazy weekend as far as injuries and the weather was not one any players side. but like you said as long as people played hard and had fun that is all that matters. |
How about this
Dec 14, 2010
07:48 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Do away with B all together. Make it one big tourney. U might lose 10 teams because they would be scared to try and play but would still leave u with 50 teams. I am someone who has played in many B and A tourneys the only difference in competition is the top 3 teams. Example. Gunz, Firm, Dmob. Everyone else could compete with everyone. |
Reality
Dec 14, 2010
08:54 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
As far as #`s go. I think it`s pretty fair to say, it swings based on location. Richmond seems to be a good mid point, however, it also usually eliminates 1/2 the teams from Faifax and VA Beach area, who probably would like to play, but aren`t going to spend the money, time, travel, etc.. to do so because they`re realistic about their overall chances. When the tourney is in those 2 areas, it`s usually a lot more local teams that except their bids. Between all the Fairfax leagues they have about 30+ bids and only 9 teams (A&B) came. I 100% guarantee that next year they use ALL their bids because it`s in their back yard, and you remove all the travel, money, etc.. factors. |
To Reality
Dec 14, 2010
09:25 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Yes, it`s true! Remove all the travel, money, etc. for Fairfax 30+ for sure. But not for the other 60 from Tidewater and Richmond! They have to travel unless their QB can throw a deep ball! |
Richmond
Dec 14, 2010
09:46 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Richmond teams will travel cause they always think they have a chance of winning it. Fairfax has the most bids, so there will def be alot of richmond and fairfax teams there... |
And
Dec 14, 2010
10:02 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Should be the biggest A tournament next year too. Expect 5 or 6 more teams to jump into the A bracket by choice since the comp at the top is steady now. |
dot21 m&g
Dec 14, 2010
7:59 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
Nope, were staying in A without a doubt. Sure we went 1 and done but was a great game and we`ve held our own recently against some top notch teams. But that means nothing without the W. Congrats to Firm on nats and Gunz for coming back with vegeance. Also congrats to Penetrators for B and to our 2 hburg teams TT and Dynasty for great runs in B.
But no more B here, A to stay and already lookn fwd to next Dec. |
CVFA:Brad
Dec 14, 2010
8:59 PM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
simple. each league gets X bids. the #1 and #2 bids go to the A tournament. The #3, #4 and so on go to the B.
done. |
PIRATES 11
Dec 15, 2010
09:17 AM | subject: re: Making A & B Tourneys fairly even
DOT21 M&G good game even though yall lost, thats only make next year better. We will be joining yall. |